why not?

because it causes a problem. ok so there’s Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. but there’s also Hindus and Buddists in this country. and the Baha’i, and even Voodoo. there are enough religions in this country that every day would be a holy day, and that does not even count secular holidays like Kwanza and Festevus (yes people do celebrate that) it just causes problems, so its best for government to stay out of religion. as for private stores or airports for example, they should be free to do whatever the heck they want

Logical arguement that pays no attention to substance gets nowhere. The fact is Canada is a Christian country. Most of the people (I think it is over 90%) will say, and do to the census taker, that they are Christian. There are little bubbles of other tiny groups. There are about 360000 Jewish people, and a little more than that of Muslims from a whole raft of origins. In some places (BC) there are Sikhs due to history (sawmill workers) and Chinese (railroad history). There are few others but they are all tiny. And the spiritualilty that is pervasive in Canada, like the air in the bubble is Christianity.

Only the tiniest number of Canadians give a hoot about these foreign spiritualities, and that is probably why we can easily be “tolerant” though I do not believe we are in general. The biggest exception to the list is the Indians, and there are perhaps 700,000 of them, and I leave it to them to say if they have one or hundreds of spiritualities. I think those of them who are not Christian, a small minority, just have a few scattered threads of whatever once served that purpose.

If all that is true we really ought not make these stuffed shirt remarks about other countries where large minorities, with cultures and spiritualities that are foreign to the place, like England are struggling with great difficulty. Remember Prime Suspect. When the Indians in Canada stick their heads above the disgusting trenches we “provide” for them, with a big and phony display of generosity, we tend to immediately show that we can match up to the worst racists you ever saw. Just get in the way of our (somebody’s) golf course, that’s all. And the Indians reciprocate by conforming nicely to our image of them. As long as we have the demographics between the Indians and the rest that we have now, we should definitely refrain from debates about various “diversities”.

We should also tell the tedious agnostics, and the even more absurd atheists to take a hike. You can no avoid your national spirituality, the cultural bubble within which you reside, than a fish can live out of water. It can make the jump all right, gasp a few times, then it is deal. Pray or not, got to Church or not, tithe or not, swear or not, read blasphemous materials or not, you cannot live outside Christianity.

Black Robe still rules in Canada, harsh, fearsome, and unforgiving though the image may be. But with the furies that are gathering, maybe we will need it once more?

garhane — to correct your claim, about two-thirds of Canadians are Christian (around 40-42% Roman Catholic, 24-26% Protestant). One in six Canadians are atheist. The other one in six are non-Christian (Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, etc). It’s important to understand these numbers because when one-third of a country is non-Christian, I think you cannot make the assumptions or claims you make. I think it’s important to respect the traditions of Christianity, but it’s equally important to respect the traditions of Jews, Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus (among others) as well. That is what is necessary in a diverse society. You sound rather nostalgic for a time when only Christians lived in Canada, but whether you like it or not, this is the global world of today (not only in Canada, but most of the developed world), where people of many different backgrounds live together and share basic civil values. We shouldn’t be afraid to learn from one another and share in each other’s traditions.

Garhane –

It’s not so much that your comment loudly proclaims that Christianity rules Canada and the West that I object to. Although that is one reason.

It is not so much your underlying contention that the majority can dictate their religious practices to the minority that I object to. Although that is one reason.

It’s not so much that you claim that you cannot live outside of Christianity (which begs the question as to how I have been living all this time) that I object to. Although that is one reason.

It’s not so much that your contention that Canada is a ‘Christian’ nation bears a striking resemblance to the Canadian nationalists of the 19th Century who called Canada a ‘White’ nation (which, they argued, ought to take up the ‘White Man’s Burden’ along with the rest of the West) that I object to. Although that is one reason.

What I do object to is that you go off blabbing your mouth as if you actually know something about these subjects. According to Statistics Canada (and if you can find a more authoritative source than that, I’m open to hearing what, in your eyes, that would be), in 2001, there were 6,787,205 NON-CHRISTIANS living in Canada. Or, in other words, somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 4 Canadians are these “tedious” and “absurd” people of whom you speak.

Is the view better from high atop your privileged perch?

Sorry about the redundancy there. I guess as I was writing my comment Greg beat me to the punch in posting the statistics argument of my post.

Paul. Always charming to watch someone running into a wall at top speed while denouncing others. Hope it did not hurt too much. And editor, is it?, interesting response. Wrong, but interesting

I got my numbers from wikipedia, page titled Religion in Canada. Take a look. It has numbers from 2001. Those who stated a religion are shown at 77% Christian. To this we must add those who do not state a religion, less those who, actually specified about (37,700)as agnostic, atheist, and a tiny tail end of 1245 humanist. That totals say 40 000, not even 1% of the persons who did not state a religion. We have then about 16% of the total as not specifying. That totals 93%, more than I thought. It is my belief, as I wrote, that all these people have a Christian spirituality since that is what they were raised within. The 40,000 odd mentioned think they have something else so I humour them, though I do not believe it for a moment. The people who were raised to a different spirituality amount to only 6%. So take your pick: minimum Christians 77%; without claimed agnostics etc, 93%; with the same 93%; balance among the litter of extras 6%.

Canada is a Christian country. Recall what happened to Sven when he wanted to cut out God from our national regalia. He was relegated to a back seat even among that hotbed of apostacy, the NDP. Did you know what the Indians named him? White Swan. They had his number didn’t they. And yes, Canada is a white nation. It is true on numbers and true on weight. Paul has some other number, of 6.7 mill non Christians, but that is not a number I see on the Census page in wikipedia. Maybe he wants to add everything after the 77% that is Christian. Why? These others will fight each other as readily as they will declaim against the Christians. You don’t add them up, especially since your argument is we are all to get along, each one group with each other group. When did your argument slip a gear and become all together against the Christians? They call that inconsistency, do they not? And yet I find Paul’s burst of dispepsia most interesting. Privileged perch? Well, it is not too bad, certainly a lot better than being on a reserve or in one of these ethnic ghettos that immigrants pen themselves into.

garhane — HERE is the Canadian Census page for religion, 2001. Clearly the Census is the final word over Wikipedia. I think you are stretching the imagination to say that people who say their are atheist are actually Christians because there is “an air of Christianity” in Canada.

The numbers are clear: 16.2% have no religion. Add up the various Protestant plus RC and you get around 70%. That was 5 years ago. I will try to find where I came across it, but I saw more recent estimates from 2005 that put that number closer to 67% (since the number of Christians is falling, which others are rising).

It’s fair to say two-thirds of Canadians are Christians. But to say “Canada is a Christian country” implies either a) state-endorsement of a particular religion, which we don’t have, or b) that everyone in the country is Christian, which is clearly not the case, as the Census shows that one-third of Canadians are not Christians. Likewise with race. You can claim that Canada 5 out of 6 Canadians are white, but not that “Canada is a white nation.” According to THIS PAGE in 2001 about 14% of Canadians were visible minorities. Again, that was 5 years ago; today, the numbers I have seen suggest it is now about 18%. To make claims that “Canada is a white nation” or “Canada is a Christian nation” is simply an attempt to marginalize those that aren’t in the majority. If you want to see what happens when those in the minority are marginalized, you need to look elsewhere because that’s not the Canada that I know.

Greg, well put. I’d also just like to draw attention again, as you touched on, to the fact that, when asked for a more authoritative source than the Census and Stats Canada, “Wikipedia” was the response.

Well, there you are showing that you can’t count, you are unable to admit error, and you scramble away even when there is simply no point. You go ahead now and enjoy yourself. It is too much like the Czech short film showing a kid at the beach making bucket shapes by filling a bucket with sand and turning it upside down. When the film expands there are bucket shapes as far as the eye can see to either side. Best to pass on, and I believe I will do that. As I have shown, there is no sense and a lot of weakness in prating on about multicultural scenes that are largely imaginary or religious diversity that is plain nonsense. We shall have far larger and far more ferocious matters to worry about real soon. And we will then suddenly realize that we need religion and the Christian church real bad.

I won’t speak for Greg, as he’s more than capable of doing so himself, but he and I have answered your vociferous attacks against religious minorities. Moreover, we have engaged you on your arguments directly – and with facts obtained in places other than ‘wikipedia’. How can that reasonably be characterised as “scrambling away”?

Greg, while I agree that all religions should be celebrated in public places like parks, city halls, legislatures, libraries, museums etc., I believe court houses ought to be an exception. It is important for the courts to avoid any impression that the application of justice may be influenced by religion or even by the general spirit of the season. You would not want someone accused of a crime to believe they received a longer sentence because they were tried in February than they would have received if they had been tried in late December.

In my opinion, the courts should remain a sombre place. They are not a suitable venue for public festivities of any sort.