<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Can Elizabeth May Defeat Gary Lunn?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/</link>
	<description>DemocraticSPACE is one of North America's leading non-partisan political websites.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:55:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1346188</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1346188</guid>
		<description>Great analysis Greg.  This post inspired me to do an analysis of my own on this subject.  After running two projection simulations, I came up with a different conclusion than you did.  I concluded that Elizabeth May does have a decent chance of winning.  I think your analysis is also strong, so it&#039;ll be interesting to see on election night who was right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis Greg.  This post inspired me to do an analysis of my own on this subject.  After running two projection simulations, I came up with a different conclusion than you did.  I concluded that Elizabeth May does have a decent chance of winning.  I think your analysis is also strong, so it&#8217;ll be interesting to see on election night who was right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prairie Topiary</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1334297</link>
		<dc:creator>Prairie Topiary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1334297</guid>
		<description>Great analysis!  The challenge for the Greens is that the only way they can win in this riding is if they take a large chunk of Conservative support and that seems very unlikely.  

If the Liberals and NDP were to both put up terrible candidates and disorganized campaigns, it seems unlikely that they&#039;d together pull less than 25% or even 30% of the vote (heck, 6% still voted NDP even when the party no longer had a candidate).  That leaves at most 75% up for grabs between other parties and Lunn would have to get 37% or less (similar to what you project in your best case, Greg) for May to win.  That&#039;s likely only if the Conservatives fall apart during a campaign or if someone other than Lunn stood as the Tory candidate -- both unlikely scenarios.

In other words, the Green Party would need a perfect storm of running their own beautiful, high-profile, well-organized campaign (bringing in a strong pro-green voter turnout and securing party switchers) while seeing all three of their main competitors run their campaigns into the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis!  The challenge for the Greens is that the only way they can win in this riding is if they take a large chunk of Conservative support and that seems very unlikely.  </p>
<p>If the Liberals and NDP were to both put up terrible candidates and disorganized campaigns, it seems unlikely that they&#8217;d together pull less than 25% or even 30% of the vote (heck, 6% still voted NDP even when the party no longer had a candidate).  That leaves at most 75% up for grabs between other parties and Lunn would have to get 37% or less (similar to what you project in your best case, Greg) for May to win.  That&#8217;s likely only if the Conservatives fall apart during a campaign or if someone other than Lunn stood as the Tory candidate &#8212; both unlikely scenarios.</p>
<p>In other words, the Green Party would need a perfect storm of running their own beautiful, high-profile, well-organized campaign (bringing in a strong pro-green voter turnout and securing party switchers) while seeing all three of their main competitors run their campaigns into the ground.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bluegreenblogger</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1334171</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluegreenblogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1334171</guid>
		<description>It`s a shame that all the GOTV data was `lost`in LNC by-election. It had been very carefully prepared in order to abstract quantitative data on many of these questions. My brother and I had prepared random samples of ID`d GPC voters, which I supplemented with data from èxternal`sources. Then we split control groups out of the population. I thought I`d died and gone to heaven when I realised that we had the volunteer resources to scrutineer the majority of the polls, and thus put a name to every voter who turned out. That`s why we rented the scanner, and bar-coded everything, so we would have clean datasets to work with for future research. That is why I was so upset when the scrutineers records were largely destroyed without scanning the data. All that we did was for nothing, and we`re paying a price to this day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It`s a shame that all the GOTV data was `lost`in LNC by-election. It had been very carefully prepared in order to abstract quantitative data on many of these questions. My brother and I had prepared random samples of ID`d GPC voters, which I supplemented with data from èxternal`sources. Then we split control groups out of the population. I thought I`d died and gone to heaven when I realised that we had the volunteer resources to scrutineer the majority of the polls, and thus put a name to every voter who turned out. That`s why we rented the scanner, and bar-coded everything, so we would have clean datasets to work with for future research. That is why I was so upset when the scrutineers records were largely destroyed without scanning the data. All that we did was for nothing, and we`re paying a price to this day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Summers</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1333481</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Summers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1333481</guid>
		<description>The amount of bump in votes that May delivered in Central Nova [and in LNC] keeps getting used as a benchmark.

This overlooks the importance of the categorically different &#039;base credibility&#039; of the Green brand in Nova Scotia versus BC [or Southern Ontario].

May came into a situation where the Green brand is a fringe phenomena. So you insert her media presence and credibility into that and of course you are going to get a much bigger bump, then you would in BC [or Ontario] where the GPC already has a significant core of voters and leaners.

In Nova Scotia May could cream some of those same demogaphic, lifestyle, and ideological &#039;types&#039; who vote or lean Green in BC, but who in Nova Scotia had simply never had reason to consider the possibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of bump in votes that May delivered in Central Nova [and in LNC] keeps getting used as a benchmark.</p>
<p>This overlooks the importance of the categorically different &#8216;base credibility&#8217; of the Green brand in Nova Scotia versus BC [or Southern Ontario].</p>
<p>May came into a situation where the Green brand is a fringe phenomena. So you insert her media presence and credibility into that and of course you are going to get a much bigger bump, then you would in BC [or Ontario] where the GPC already has a significant core of voters and leaners.</p>
<p>In Nova Scotia May could cream some of those same demogaphic, lifestyle, and ideological &#8216;types&#8217; who vote or lean Green in BC, but who in Nova Scotia had simply never had reason to consider the possibility.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: democraticspace</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1333255</link>
		<dc:creator>democraticspace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 03:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1333255</guid>
		<description>@Jim - I&#039;m not sure I would agree there is a history of strategic voting in Saanich; Greens did last time b/c Penn was a former Green and NDPers did last time b/c their candidate dropped out. But otherwise, there is no history of it.

The Greens do draw from all 3 parties, but by far more heavily from the NDP, then the Liberals and only a very small amount from the CPC. That&#039;s solidly backed up by recent internal data I have. If you have something concrete to refute that in LNC, feel free to post it.

You either missed or disagreed with what I said about by-elections: &quot;while a candidate can deliver a much higher premium in a by-election (as May did in London North Centre), since the government is not on the line and more votes are personal votes, but not in a general election&quot;. LNC was a by-election. And as you note, there was no Liberal candidate in CN.

I projected 33-36% for May in Central Nova in 2008 and she got 32.2%. So if anything, I slightly overestimated the number of personal votes she would get. People said that CN would be too wild to predict, but my range was pretty much what she got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure I would agree there is a history of strategic voting in Saanich; Greens did last time b/c Penn was a former Green and NDPers did last time b/c their candidate dropped out. But otherwise, there is no history of it.</p>
<p>The Greens do draw from all 3 parties, but by far more heavily from the NDP, then the Liberals and only a very small amount from the CPC. That&#8217;s solidly backed up by recent internal data I have. If you have something concrete to refute that in LNC, feel free to post it.</p>
<p>You either missed or disagreed with what I said about by-elections: &#8220;while a candidate can deliver a much higher premium in a by-election (as May did in London North Centre), since the government is not on the line and more votes are personal votes, but not in a general election&#8221;. LNC was a by-election. And as you note, there was no Liberal candidate in CN.</p>
<p>I projected 33-36% for May in Central Nova in 2008 and she got 32.2%. So if anything, I slightly overestimated the number of personal votes she would get. People said that CN would be too wild to predict, but my range was pretty much what she got.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jad</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1333204</link>
		<dc:creator>jad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1333204</guid>
		<description>A further point you might wish to note is this statement from Briony Penn in Wednesday&#039;s Times Colonist: 
&quot;Penn said she would &quot;dearly love&quot; to see May in Parliament, but since March she&#039;s been backing Liberal nomination candidate Renee Hetherington in Saanich-Gulf Islands.&quot;

Doesn&#039;t look like May can expect much help from Penn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A further point you might wish to note is this statement from Briony Penn in Wednesday&#8217;s Times Colonist:<br />
&#8220;Penn said she would &#8220;dearly love&#8221; to see May in Parliament, but since March she&#8217;s been backing Liberal nomination candidate Renee Hetherington in Saanich-Gulf Islands.&#8221;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t look like May can expect much help from Penn.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Johnston</title>
		<link>http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/2009/08/can-elizabeth-may-defeat-gary-lunn/comment-page-1/#comment-1333056</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://democraticSPACE.com/blog/?p=1870#comment-1333056</guid>
		<description>Interesting analysis, Greg.  I think that there are a couple of qualitative factors that need to be mixed into such an analysis.  The rather large impact of these qualitative factors significantly undermines a mathematical projection.

First, SGI has a history of strategic voting, that is, many voters in the LIB/NDP/GREEN parties will look to see who is likely to be number 2, and swing their vote to that candidate.  As you noted in your analysis, Penny benefited from that swing in the last election and you corrected for that.  However, the amount of that swing is uncertain, and the amount of additional loss to Liberal party if another candidate was the perceived leader is not considered in your analysis.

Second, you have quoted polling which suggests that the vote attrition from the Conservative party is minor.  While I have no doubt that your study indicated this outcome, it is certainly at odds with the London North Centre outcome, and with historical studies that have been done which suggest that equal numbers migrate to the Greens from teh Conservatives, Liberals and NDP.

Finally, I believe that your estimate of Elizabeth&#039;s &quot;personal votes&quot; is less than half of what we have seen, first in LNC, and lately in Central Nova.  While CN was affected by the absence of a Liberal candidate, it is also clear that a lot of Liberals simply didn&#039;t vote.

In short, I don&#039;t think that a regular kind of projection is going to give us anything close to a reliable result.  Please note that I say this while acknowledging the amazing job you do with your projection model, and the great results you have achieved with it.  I just think that if EM ends up in SGI, it will too wild a ride to predict.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting analysis, Greg.  I think that there are a couple of qualitative factors that need to be mixed into such an analysis.  The rather large impact of these qualitative factors significantly undermines a mathematical projection.</p>
<p>First, SGI has a history of strategic voting, that is, many voters in the LIB/NDP/GREEN parties will look to see who is likely to be number 2, and swing their vote to that candidate.  As you noted in your analysis, Penny benefited from that swing in the last election and you corrected for that.  However, the amount of that swing is uncertain, and the amount of additional loss to Liberal party if another candidate was the perceived leader is not considered in your analysis.</p>
<p>Second, you have quoted polling which suggests that the vote attrition from the Conservative party is minor.  While I have no doubt that your study indicated this outcome, it is certainly at odds with the London North Centre outcome, and with historical studies that have been done which suggest that equal numbers migrate to the Greens from teh Conservatives, Liberals and NDP.</p>
<p>Finally, I believe that your estimate of Elizabeth&#8217;s &#8220;personal votes&#8221; is less than half of what we have seen, first in LNC, and lately in Central Nova.  While CN was affected by the absence of a Liberal candidate, it is also clear that a lot of Liberals simply didn&#8217;t vote.</p>
<p>In short, I don&#8217;t think that a regular kind of projection is going to give us anything close to a reliable result.  Please note that I say this while acknowledging the amazing job you do with your projection model, and the great results you have achieved with it.  I just think that if EM ends up in SGI, it will too wild a ride to predict.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.153 seconds -->
